Posts tagged A Song of Ice and Fire
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The day I play Ernst Kantorowicz
What annoys me when people talk about Daenerys and the Targaryen and the Baratheons is that they don’t understand how Medieval ideology works.
Martin based his books off Medieval History (not only but in Royal behaviour/ruling/power terms it is rather obvious). So this is what we have to try to understand instead of saying DANY HAS ALL THE RIGHTS or ROBERT IS A USURPER. It’s much more complicated than this as it is much more complicated than Robert just going to the war because of a woman.
In a medieval/early modern age, rebelling against a King was considered treason. But there were reasons that could justify a rebellion especially before the ideas of absolute monarchy appeared (Surprise, surprise medieval rulers were not absolute). If a King was considered a tyrant - which obviously the mad King was - rebellion was justified. When Benjamin Frankilin says “Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God” he’s not making it up. He’s taking it from works of Medieval philosophy. Especially Saint Thomas Aquinas in Summa Theologica (and of course, we can pull this back to Aristotle):
Objection 4. Further, some laws are tyrannical, as the Philisopher (Aristotle)says (Polit. iii, 6). But a tyrant does not intend the good of his subjects, but considers only his own profit. Therefore law does not make men good.
And this was extended with the growth of religious division in Europe and the whole cuius regio eius religio. For instance, you have Vindiciae contra Tyrannos published in Basel in 1579 by a hugenot, where he clearly defends that rebellion against a King annoited by God was legitimate if the King abused his subjects (Which seems obvious the Mad King does, especially his most powerful subjects look at what he does to Brandon and to Ned’s father, not to mention his constant paranoia that made him torture and kill indiscriminately). Actually, it was widely understood that from the moment a King abuses his subjects he’s going against his prime mission: Justice. He’s not being Just therefore he loses the legitimacy to be king.
And this applies not only to the King but to his family. To his Dynasty. Because one thing was not independent from the other. From the moment the Hapsburgs were rejected in Netherlands William of Orange didn’t think: Oh wait we don’t want Philip but we can have his son or his nephew.
When Parliament rebels against Charles I they’re rebelling against the Stuarts not only Charles. (I mean, James and Charles II have to flee to the Continent).
Of course that Dany is always going to think that the Baratheons are usurpers (The Hapsburg thought so of the Braganzas until the beginning of the 18th century although Portugal had become independent from the Spanish Monarchy in 1640. And remember what Charles II did to the body of Oliver Cromwell?) so none of this really matters or will matter to her or to her supporters. Also, whenever someone would want to spite Robert they would call him usurper (it happened with the Philip II when he became King of Portugal too although he was the lawful king). But Robert’s rebellion was justified before the eyes of Medieval/Early modern philosophy and these would be very familiar concepts to the society and powers that Martin tries to portray in his books.
I don’t understand people who say Stannis wouldn’t be a good King.
The guy actually ran the Kingdom with Jon Arryn. He wouldn’t be popular and people’s person but he would be just (which was by the way the main quality a medieval King was required to have. Kings were there first and foremost to administer Justice) and he would be competent and responsible. He would care for the people at least to the point he wouldn’t waste taxes in meaningless things.
Yes, he wouldn’t attend Jousts but I rather think it’s better a King who doesn’t attend Jousts to a King who was very nice but constantly fucks things up and is controlled by everything and everyone.
For all the long suffering people in my dash who are pissed/worried/outraged for the Gendry/Melisandre in game of thrones let me remind you that:
You know I like Les Mis, you’re insane enough to follow me right?
So, there was an adaptation of Les Miserábles where Jean Valjean lived with this OC (wow) Robert (yes) and Cosette (practically gay couple adopts child in the 19th century. As though Valjean would ever sleep with anyone but Javert). And Robert - after Javert HELPS Valjean in the end - tells him something like “how can you live with yourself after everything you’ve done to Jean? You should go kill yourself!”
So it could be worse.
We could have an OC who actually tells Stannis to go kill himself and then Stannis goes and does it. Or an OC who lives in close quarters with Sam Tarly and tells the truth to Jon Snow. Or an OC who fucks Gendry instead of Mel. Or an OC who provokes the Red Wedding (oh wait).
“What is our heart’s desire?”
“Vengeance.” His voice was soft, as if he were afraid that someone might be listening. “Justice.” Prince Doran pressed the onyx dragon into her palm with his swollen, gouty fingers, and whispered, “Fire and blood.”
Stannis is going to be blamed for Robb Stark’s death isn’t he?
I really want to know what the producers of Game of Thrones are going to do if Stannis really does get to the last book, I mean how are they going to explain that they’ve ignored one of the most important characters in the whole series?
redwineforgandalf asked: May I ask, why do you like Stannis so much?
Stannis is not a nice man. He is not kind, he is not funny like Tyrion (Although there’s a sarcastic wit to him) or mysterious like the Martells or fascinating like the Lannisters. Stannis is not in any way, a character people would love. Most people either despise him or hate him.
The reason I love Stannis is because he knows this, he knows most people don’t like him but still he goes on and does his duty. Stannis spent his life being put in second place. With Robert and then with Renly (We can argue whether Robert meant it or not but the fact is that this was how Stannis saw it) and then after Robert’s death he’s put in second place again, although he IS the rightful King. He cared for his brothers, for his family, and they never paid him back. Why? Because Stannis isn’t charming like Renly, he didn’t have a way with people like Robert. He’s not a good chum.
He’s dutiful, he’s serious, he’s honest. He’s pragmatic too. And he’s fucking just. He made mistakes but at the end of they day, they’re justified in the great scheme of things. Stannis spent his life being despised. Stannis is the guy who always tries harder than anyone else, the guy for whom nothing comes easily, and still people never give him credit. But HE NEVER GIVES UP.
I mean, he’s a fucking war hero in Storm’s End and Robert praises Ned Stark!
He could have turned his back to everything. Stannis doesn’t want to be King. This is the key point. He doesn’t want to be King. He would much prefer, surely, to stay in Storm’s End for the rest of his life. But he must, because it’s his duty, because he’s Robert’s hair, because the Baratheons won a war and they’re the rightful Kings as a result. (That’s how it worked in Medieval times). He’s going through all this pain, losing arguably the only man who ever loved him or cared for him (Davos), seeing his wife and daughter in danger, suffering through great trials and ordeals. This is obviously consuming him (Asha’s chapter shows this) but still he fights.
And he doesn’t fight for him. By this point, Stannis is not only fighting for his claim, Stannis is fighting to protect the Realm. Because the real threat comes from beyond the Wall and Stannis knows this and he’s risking everything - including his own life - to save the Kingdom.
Stannis is duty, justice and bravery. And this is exceptional because in a world and in a set of characters that only care about themselves, their power, their asses and ocasionally about their closest relatives (and sometimes not even then) Stannis, ironically, ends up being incredibly selfless.
Let’s face it. Stannis is an underdog. From all the people who are claiming the throne, he’s the one who has the rights but he’s also the one who’s more likely to lose the war. Who do you expect to win this? Dany perhaps, she’s has dragons. The Lannisters have been winning, Tywin was all powerful, the Boltons have the North. I mean, Stannis would have died by now. He has always been losing this war. He even suffered a major defeat in Blackwater Bay.
What does he do when he’s losing the war? He goes fight for his Kingdom. He goes to the North to save his Kingdom from the Great Threat, from another Long Night. I believe that deep down, Stannis knows he’s not Azor Ahai. He knows he’s not any kind of Promised Prince. But IT DOESN’T MATTER. Azor Ahai or not, he is the King and as such it is his duty to protect the Kingdom.
Plus, Stannis believes in loyalty, he believes in hard truths. That’s why he keeps Davos around. He doesn’t want to be revered, he never was, he doesn’t want to be pampered and admired like Cersei, he doesn’t power for the sake of power. He wants to be King because it’s his duty. His duty to his family, his duty to his daughter, to his dead brother, and to the Kingdom.
Plus he has a wonderful sass that I love and a pair of fine blue eyes.
Stannis is my King and will always be.
Rebloggable by request
they-burned-winterfell asked:
May I ask, why do you like Stannis so much?
Stannis is not a nice man. He is not kind, he is not funny like Tyrion (Although there’s a sarcastic wit to him) or mysterious like the Martells or fascinating like the Lannisters. Stannis is not in any way, a character people would love. Most people either despise him or hate him.
The reason I love Stannis is because he knows this, he knows most people don’t like him but still he goes on and does his duty. Stannis spent his life being put in second place. With Robert and then with Renly (We can argue whether Robert meant it or not but the fact is that this was how Stannis saw it) and then after Robert’s death he’s put in second place again, although he IS the rightful King. He cared for his brothers, for his family, and they never paid him back. Why? Because Stannis isn’t charming like Renly, he didn’t have a way with people like Robert. He’s not a good chum.
He’s dutiful, he’s serious, he’s honest. He’s pragmatic too. And he’s fucking just. He made mistakes but at the end of they day, they’re justified in the great scheme of things. Stannis spent his life being despised. Stannis is the guy who always tries harder than anyone else, the guy for whom nothing comes easily, and still people never give him credit. But HE NEVER GIVES UP.
I mean, he’s a fucking war hero in Storm’s End and Robert praises Ned Stark!
He could have turned his back to everything. Stannis doesn’t want to be King. This is the key point. He doesn’t want to be King. He would much prefer, surely, to stay in Storm’s End for the rest of his life. But he must, because it’s his duty, because he’s Robert’s hair, because the Baratheons won a war and they’re the rightful Kings as a result. (That’s how it worked in Medieval times). He’s going through all this pain, losing arguably the only man who ever loved him or cared for him (Davos), seeing his wife and daughter in danger, suffering through great trials and ordeals. This is obviously consuming him (Asha’s chapter shows this) but still he fights.
And he doesn’t fight for him. By this point, Stannis is not only fighting for his claim, Stannis is fighting to protect the Realm. Because the real threat comes from beyond the Wall and Stannis knows this and he’s risking everything - including his own life - to save the Kingdom.
Stannis is duty, justice and bravery. And this is exceptional because in a world and in a set of characters that only care about themselves, their power, their asses and ocasionally about their closest relatives (and sometimes not even then) Stannis’s, ironically, ends up being incredibly selfless.
Let’s face it. Stannis is an underdog. From all the people who are claiming the throne, he’s the one who has the rights but he’s also the one who’s more likely to lose the war. Who do you expect to win this? Dany perhaps, she’s has dragons. The Lannisters have been winning, Tywin was all powerful, the Boltons have the North. I mean, Stannis would have died by now. He has always been losing this war. He even suffered a major defeat in Blackwater Bay.
What does he do when he’s losing the war? He goes fight for his Kingdom. He goes to the North to save his Kingdom from the Great Threat, from another Long Night. I believe that deep down, Stannis knows he’s not Azor Ahai. He knows he’s not any kind of Promised Prince. But IT DOESN’T MATTER. Azor Ahai or not, he is the King and as such it is his duty to protect the Kingdom.
Plus, Stannis believes in loyalty, he believes in hard truths. That’s why he keeps Davos around. He doesn’t want to be revered, he never was, he doesn’t want to be pampered and admired like Cersei, he doesn’t power for the sake of power. He wants to be King because it’s his duty. His duty to his family, his duty to his daughter, to his dead brother, and to the Kingdom.
Plus he has a wonderful sass that I love and a pair of fine blue eyes.
Stannis is my King and will always be.
UM NO I HAVE NOT, BUT NOW THAT YOU’VE MENTIONED IT I KIND OF LOVE IT AND I’M FANFICCING IT IN MY HEAD.
No, seriously. If you have theories in this direction, please tell me more.
Well, a friend has mentioned this theory to me that Jon might end up becoming a leader of the Others…I just got the feeling that Jon’s fate is connected to beyond the Wall and I think that’s where he’ll end. Perhaps as a new “Mance Rayder” or really connected to the Others. I don’t think the books will end with the destruction of the Others because well, I don’t think it would be that simple, a simple fight against a almost faceless evil, I mean what do we know about the Others really? Not much, practicaly nothing. And are you just born an Other? Or you can become one in the way one becomes a wight? And do we know for sure that they want to conquer the seven Kingdoms? Because a legend with 8.000 says so?
I think Jon’s fate is probably connected to what happens beyond the wall, I think everything points to that: he is azor ahai, therefore that connects him to the Long Night and the Others, he has actually spent time with the wildlings, he is a man of the Night’s Watch. It would make very little sense for me if he ended up in King’s Landing. It’s like Dany suddenly becoming Queen of Westeros when she spent more than half of the story in Essos.
